I Forgot to Mention This

"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno) 11/03/2015 at 16:14 • Filed to: None

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Last week I helped a friend pick up a $350 1997 Camaro from the middle of nowhere, Illinois. Yes, you read that right, three-hundred fifty dollars.

What does a “running” (our hour drive home took over 5 hours... Yeah) and driving $350 Camaro look like you may ask? Well...

Yeah, not gonna win any beauty awards for a long time. But, it drives right and what my friend plans on doing with it is pretty great. We’re currently in the process of ripping the 3800 and 5-speed out and putting a 350 and 6-speed in. He’s already got a line on a new front and rear bumper and were eventually going to be cutting that ruined quarter panel out and welding a new one in.

It’s not even my car but I’m excited to help. I’m also going to be learning stick shift on it so that’s a huge plus.

deekster_caddy > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 11/03/2015 at 16:17

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I want to play with the 3800 and supercharging like the FWD cars had, I hear they are the same blocks and such, so I imagine doing a top swap would be relatively easy. RWD supercharged 3800 5 speed? Yes please!

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > deekster_caddy 11/03/2015 at 16:19

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That's actually originally what he wanted to do, but this 3800 is toast. Oil and coolant and water... Everywhere.

crowmolly > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 11/03/2015 at 16:24

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FYI, all 1997 Camaros got “30th” headrests.

“30th Anniversary editions” were all white with hugger orange. Z or SS.

Mystic Teal Metallic/Blue Green Chameleon is a cool color but blending it for body repairs is a PITA.

Regardless, great score! Check the RPO codes on the door for Y87, which would be a handling package that includes an Auburn LSD.

Too many M's > deekster_caddy 11/03/2015 at 16:24

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Looks like fun! All the best on the project, look forward to seeing progress.

deekster_caddy > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 11/03/2015 at 16:25

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Probably just needs LIM gaskets - an easy job.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > crowmolly 11/03/2015 at 16:29

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Well that’s sort of strange that all cars got 30th headrests. I’ll jave to edit the post

I don’t think he plans on keeping it that color. I’ve heard black or red.

Ooh, I'll have to look.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 11/03/2015 at 16:31

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Drift damage bro.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 11/03/2015 at 16:32

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Pretty much. PO said she slid on ice into a pole.

crowmolly > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 11/03/2015 at 16:35

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Forgot to ask, is he going LS or LT?

El Rocko > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 11/03/2015 at 16:40

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I know many garages look the same but damn that looks just like the one where I used to work in Webster NY

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > crowmolly 11/03/2015 at 16:41

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LT I think. I can’t remember his reasoning for that over LS though.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > deekster_caddy 11/03/2015 at 16:44

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I looked into this for another project and it’s doable but there’s a bit more than just swapping on the intake and blower.

The cylinder heads are different - the supercharged engines have the injector bungs in the heads themselves because they don’t fit under the blower. I believe they also come with stainless valves and stiffer valve springs.

Pistons are different. The S/C motors have a flat or dished piston (can’t remember which), to reduce compression and help prevent detonation.

Camshaft grind is also different. I’ve heard you can run the blower with the N/A cam but it’s not real happy about it.

The things I can’t remember are the rods and the crankshaft. I think the S/C motors use different rods but I’m not 100% sure on that. Also, I can’t remember if the crankshafts are different. I think they are the same crank in terms of materials and machining (i.e. one isn’t stronger than the other) but I can’t remember how the blower is driven, so I’m not sure if the S/C has a longer snout or not.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2015 at 16:46

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this idea still sounds oddly interesting.

I wonder if you could just do a S/C 3800 motor swap and not have to change out all those parts. With that giant list of parts, it sounds like a whole motor is probably cheaper to get your hands on.

This just sounds fun.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 11/03/2015 at 16:47

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I think in 97 the LS debuted on the ‘Vette and didn’t make it to the Fbody until 98 or 99. My guess is a lot of the stuff in the car (wiring harness, etc), will work with the LT since they would have both been used in that car, so it probably makes the swap a whole lot easier.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 11/03/2015 at 16:53

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Oh, I completely agree. The 3800 in general is a fantastic motor, the S/Cs are especially great. And both NA and SC are available relatively cheap, even compared to LS motors and such. The SC motor stock guts are also good up to about 500~550HP if I remember correctly. Even being an iron block, I think they are still lighter than an LS, and since they are shorter they help centralize mass in the chassis.

If I remember correctly, there are 2 different 3800 blocks, one for FWD and one for RWD, and the RWD was never offered with the SC (in the US, that is - Holden did offer it). But I believe the guts are all compatible.

So my plan was to get a 3800 V6 out of a Camaro and strip it to the bare block (except for the cam.. I’ll get to that in a second). Then get a 3800 SC out of an FWD car and swap everything over to the RWD block. But the big surprise is... no supercharger... I’d throw a turbo on it. 3800’s love turbos (it’s basically the GNX motor after all). Also, the NA cam actually works better with a turbo than the blower cam. It would make 450HP all day long for pennies and be dead nuts reliable. So much win.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2015 at 16:55

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You just broke GM Performance.

Where do you live? Let’s get to work.

Urambo Tauro > deekster_caddy 11/03/2015 at 16:58

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Probably, but if coolant got into the oil, all bets are off when it comes to the bearings...

crowmolly > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/03/2015 at 16:59

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You are correct.

LS in the F-body didn’t start until 1998 so the swap is easier. Parts are also cheaper in a lot of cases since the LT cars are overlooked quite frequently.

PS9 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 11/03/2015 at 17:47

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Weaksauce in engine form. Oh wait, that’s the 3800. That one wasn’t too bad.

bryan40oop > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 11/03/2015 at 18:46

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LT1, the biggest pain in the ass to work on. Unless you score one for free, not worth it man. Just not worth it.

6Cylinder > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 11/03/2015 at 19:29

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lol is that beehive of plastic supposed to be for crash protection?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > 6Cylinder 11/03/2015 at 19:34

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We were wondering the same thing.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > bryan40oop 11/03/2015 at 19:35

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Not my car so..

pip bip - choose Corrour > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 11/03/2015 at 23:55

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drift car!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > crowmolly 11/04/2015 at 08:47

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Yeah, and the LTs are still good engines. You can make a surprising amount of power out of them. LT4 head & intake plus a hot cam, along with supporting mods (cold air, headers) should get you up in the low 400’s.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 11/04/2015 at 08:57

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I live in northern Virginia, right outside of DC. The main reason I haven’t done anything like this yet is I rent an apartment, so I don’t have anywhere to work on stuff.

This motor was the result of a discussion I had with a friend of mine about building a rally car truck. The plan was to find a Chevy S10 4x4 with a manual transmission, then convert it to AWD using the transfer case and front diff from an Oldsmobile Bravada SUV (same chassis, everything bolts in). The S10 manuals and Camaro V6 manuals both used the Tremec T5 transmission, so the bellhousing from the V6 should bolt up to the S10 4x4 gearbox. There’s a great aftermarket for T5s, so eventually throw hardened shafts and dog-ring gears in it, along with a V-gate shifter, to transform it into a sequential crashbox.

S10s were available with the 4.3L V6, which was basically an SBC with 2 cylinders lopped off. The Camaro naturally uses the SBC as it’s V8 option, so my theory is that the motor mounts on the RWD 3800 V6 should line up with those in an S10, or a set of S10/SBC adapter plate would work. I haven’t actually researched this portion yet, but I’m pretty sure it’s doable, just a matter of figuring out the mounts.

I love GM stuff because it’s all like Legos.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/04/2015 at 09:11

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You’re basically trying to make a Typhoon.

I know S10’s probably better than I should haha. My first truck was a 1988 S10 Blazer 4x4 that my dad bought me that had a blown motor, I started building the truck by hand at 14. I bored the 4.3L 60 over, ported heads, upgraded valves, it was a maniac. You’d be amazed what you can get out of those 4.3’s.

Though if your goal is to eventually do all that to get a turbo V6 into a 4x4 blazer, why not just build a 4.3L? I get the Bravada swap to get AWD, that’s what they did in the Typhoon’s anyhow.

crowmolly > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/04/2015 at 09:21

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From what I remember you can get better performance for cheaper than the LT4/GM stuff via LE or AI. Either way, not a big deal.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 11/04/2015 at 10:50

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You’re absolutely right, it had definitely crossed my mind that I was more or less building a Syclone or Typhoon. The 4.3 V6 is also a fantastic engine and it had crossed my mind but finding an S10, manual, 4x4 combo is difficult, though, at least where I live. I seemed to find way more with the 4 bangers.

I also went with the 3800 because they made the Supercharged version that was already built for boost. I’m less familiar with the guts of the 4.3 - I realize it shares a lot of parts with the SBC, but I’m not sure if I could do something like the above with factory parts. I just liked the idea of buying 2x 3800 V6s and swapping the guts around. It should be cheap, simple, and I know it works.

Also, your blazer sounds pretty badass. Those 4.3’s can really run.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/04/2015 at 11:26

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OK I can see your argument, I don’t know if the stock internals could handle a good turbo and if you were going to do it, you’d want to rebuilt the 4.3 anyhow. Your plan for a built 3800 sounds like it isn’t going to lose much vs a built 4.3.

The Blazer was a blast man. The 4x4 pushed me through about 15-16 inches of unplowed snow one night in a blizzard. It did not have that kind of ground clearance, kept on chugging. the 4.3L was a grunt of a motor and I ripped the tires whenever I pleased. I drove it in highschool in 2003-2004 and I had much enjoyment destroying the “tuner-bros” off the line (you know riced civics were all the rage then!). I may or may not have pinned the speedometer on an empty highway one night. Pretty sure I cracked 100 but the speedo only went to 85 I believe. Why do I guess 100? well, I had floored after the needle pinned at 85....and then it shifted again. I continued accelerating for a bit after that before I thought “well I’m being a complete idiot, let’s slow it down”.

Here it is, never looked like much, but went like hell.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 11/04/2015 at 13:29

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That is awesome. We had a little GMC S-15 in that body style, it was an 86 with the 2.8L V6. It was slow as balls but it would run forever. I once pinned the speedo at 85 in it, but I don’t think it went any faster than that.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/04/2015 at 13:42

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When it shifted and it kept on accelerating as if I was only doing 50 I knew I had a looooot more left to go.

deekster_caddy > Snuze: Needs another Swede 11/04/2015 at 15:44

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Same crank and rods, different piston. A lot of people who “top swap” (the heads up) prefer the high compression motor. You have to run super (or E85) and know what you are doing with the tuning, but can make more power with the high compression engine. The SC is driven by a special crank pulley that drives two belts instead of one, so you need some extra parts from the donor supercharged motor (belt tensioners etc). But look at how much space is in front of that engine!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > deekster_caddy 11/05/2015 at 09:05

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Thanks for setting me straight. I’d researched this a while ago and my memory was a little fuzzy but everything you’re saying sounds right. I never was sure how they blower was driven, I didn’t realize they used a special 2 belt pulley. If I was going to do a build like this, I’d probably do a turbo, so I never was all that concerned with the blower drive.